Ep. 129 - THE PANIC IN NEEDLE PARK and SCARFACE

[MovieciderJAY]

During this weeks episode Brendan and I get into a fight over whether or not Tony Montana (Scarface) is an anti-hero. I believe that he doesn't even deserve the term hero because he has no redeeming qualities. Not once during the film do I root for him. While Brendan thinks the opposite. Even though he is a despicable character you still want him to take down his enemies because they also are terrible people.

Movieciders, what do you think? Is he an anti-hero or not? 

["Ivan", the anonymous.]

Hello B n J,
I agree with Brendan (not cause of any relations here) although I think he missed a lot more details than mentioned during the podcast. Tony Montana is a horrible monster, but the theme of the movie deals with why a person can become such a monster when thrown into bad situations in life. He is raised in Cuba under Castro's gangster society; he is a minority in a white world America (explains the need for an ugly accent by Pacino, which insulted the latin community when the film came out); His world (in his mind )is full of real violence where everyone is out to literally kill you, as shown in the first drug deal; and most importantly, he feels alone in his fight to survive (as shown by his relationship with his mother). It was heart wrenching to see him long for a true family by protecting his sister and realizing that his wife couldn't have children cause of drugs. He is an antihero cause , even though he is evil, he still suffers from the same emotions we all suffer from. The only monster I can recall in film that is not an antihero is Jaws, though Brendan might say , the shark was not the monster.

[MovieciderBRENDAN]

Jul 21, 2013 17:17:36 GMT -5 MovieciderJAY said:

During this weeks episode Brendan and I get into a fight over whether or not Tony Montana (Scarface) is an anti-hero. I believe that he doesn't even deserve the term hero because he has no redeeming qualities. 


Jay, you ignorant slut.

Just because the term "hero" appears in "anti-hero" does not mean he needs any redeeming qualities.  IN FACT, the term "anti hero" as defined by Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary is as follows:

: a protagonist or notable figure who is conspicuously lacking in heroic qualities
— an·ti·he·ro·ic adjective

OR, if you want to go to Wikipedia (which is NEVER wrong or edited by normal people, ESPECIALLY when it supports MY case) :
In literature, an antihero (or antiheroine as the female) is a protagonist who has no heroic virtues or qualities (such as being morally good, idealistic, courageous, noble, and possessing fortitude), blurring the line between hero and villain.

The argument is NOT whether or not Tony Montana is an antihero.  The argument is whether or not Jay has misunderstood the term "antihero" for 28 years.



(winky face makes being a prick to your co-host o.k.)

Love you, pookie.
-Brendan

[MovieciderJAY]

First off, Brendan... Shut Up. Don't start using your logic on me. Getting all high and mighty with your fancy definitions. That being said, perhaps my use of the word anti-hero is a little more strict then Merriam Webster.

I still believe that an anti-hero needs to do things for the right reason otherwise they are just the villain. Furthermore, who decides what heroic qualities are. Some may say that during Man of Steel Superman didn't show heroic qualities letting Metropolis crumble. Does that make him an anti-hero?

What about when Batman interrogates a henchman and breaks his leg. That doesn't seem like a heroic quality does it.

It seems like your definition is a little vague and subjective.

How about that Mr. Doubting Mustafa 

[MovieciderBRENDAN]

Jul 24, 2013 14:27:06 GMT -5 MovieciderJAY said:

I still believe that an anti-hero needs to do things for the right reason otherwise they are just the villain. Furthermore, who decides what heroic qualities are. Some may say that during Man of Steel Superman didn't show heroic qualities letting Metropolis crumble. Does that make him an anti-hero?

Bad stuff for the right reason, eh?  

-"Here, Mom.  I brought you a shit ton of money that you won't take because you know that it's blood money.  I'll give it to my sister anyway behind your back so that you and her are well taken care of."

-"Hey, boss.  I'm taking over the show here and killing you off because you're a sloppy businessman who lets informants and rats go undetected within the inner circles.  OH, and you just tried to have me killed."

-"Hey, army of latino thugs at the end of the movie.  Are you here to kill me because I refused to let an assassination take place that would have killed a woman and her two children along with the target?  Well that's just irritating.  I may be a monster, but i do have SOME standards!"

Your move, partner.

-Brendan

[Michael Stavros]

I wouldn't say that Tony Montana has no redeeming qualities.  He very clearly cares for his family (even though his mother doesn't approve of what he's doing), does not want to murder women and children, and genuinely does care for Manny for much of the film.  Tony is just in a very shitty situation that requires him to be very cutthroat, and his later cocaine addiction only helps to bring out the worst in him.  Considering these positive and negative qualities as well as his indisputable role as the protagonist, he's definitely an anti-hero.

[MovieciderBRENDAN]

All hail Stavros. For he is wise and on Brendan's side in this argument.